Current results?

[Thunder-squall]

So it looks like we didn't just copy Camelot? So it looks like we worked hard on almost every aspect of it?

Open question to every one reading the thread:  Is ^this^ stuff important to you, and something you want to put effort into?

[Teawater]

Blah... I feel like I'm almost taking ownership of the entire project. ... I suppose nevermind then. We can go with 100% of the current World Map... [because] I don't feel like negotiating on this issue...

[Luna_blade]

Wow that's alot of things you did there. I don't even have the time to check it all out right now.
Yes I could have custom map easily. It would take some more time to make it a detailed one (9000x9000 pixels).

Yes making an RPGmaker texture set would be a very good idea.

[Thunder-squall]

If you guys do want to make a whole new world unrelated to Camelot's, then the previous DC efforts did point to a World Map.

But I'll still ask:  Why?  Is anyone claiming that any of the work done for Dimensional Crisis was any good?  Without a guide to walk us through it (maybe Misery), I think we're pretty lost going in that direction.

[Teawater]

Yes I could have custom map easily. It would take some more time to make it a detailed one (9000x9000 pixels).

I look forward to seeing what luna_blade is going to come up with. (Does it really have to be 9000x9000, though?)


If we did, however, chose to do a custom World Map, we would have to consider the common terrain we should have.

-Forests (GS1's Tret place)
-Deserts (Lamakan Desert , Yampi Desert , etc.)
-Mountain Passages/Caves
-Special Hotspots: Castle towns , Main events like Collosso and Trial Roads , Gambling games , etc.
-The 4 elemental Rocks and Lighthouses if we do them. (If not done in a different method.)
-Any places where effects occur? (Like how it gets dark near Gabomba Statue before you complete that dungeon. How it gets foggy near Lemuria, or how it rains/snows near Prox.)

Pretty much, just randomly drop them on the map without much thought... (Doesn't have to look great in the Alpha stages/just a layout for the project.) . I'm guessing at least 50% will be water. If one wanted to, they could base it off our real life world... ; I think the World Map for DC didn't have a lot of effort put into it due to lack of proper tools and people. (Unfortunately, we still lack the people... but for Tools? DC was suppose to have been a hack back then... if you take us to a RPG Maker, that might be a different story.)

Spoiler for Life:

The ten largest deserts
1    Antarctic Desert (Antarctica)
2    Arctic Desert (Arctic)
3    Sahara Desert (Africa)
4    Arabian Desert (Middle East)
5    Gobi Desert (Asia)
6    Patagonian Desert (South America)
7    Great Victoria Desert (Australia)
8    Kalahari Desert (Africa)
9    Great Basin Desert (North America)
10    Syrian Desert (Middle East)

Well-known cities:
New York City
Los Angeles
Las Vegas
Miami, Florida
Rome, Italy
Auschwitz (Well-known from Concentration Camp stories.)

Possible references:
Sweet Home Alabama (Ex: PC reads a sign that says "Sweet Home [City]")

If I do think more realistically, I doubt I have the motivation to go on with an entire GS game... certainly not by myself. (Even with the original map.) (Thus, if I ever do create that engine thing... which was mostly a "plan"... it'll probably be a small/short game. It's likely to be more feature-focused than story-focused? For now, just assume it's nothing more than a plan/idea...)

[Saturos]

if we will work on rpg I don't mind but we we use rpg XP or rpg VX?
what kind of battle Staff we will use 2D or 3D like in original gs?
New ideas:We can make it like there are seven worlds 4 elemental
Hell heaven  and something like wejard.
We will have in Wejard grand war but then our hero Trevor and Scholar Kraden  travels by sea andthe ship sunks in whirpol.
They Arvie in Mars relarm.There they meat girl named Alice(Mars Adept)
In mars world they enter some Town and runs into Saturos...(He is avesome Drake and cool Mars Adept in his haven).


Your Ideas?

[Luna_blade]

EDIT
@Teawater Well I can do everything with that map, but like you say, we should first determine what our world contains.
5000x5000 is the size of the TLA overworld map. The one that the game loads when entering the overworld. I'm quite sure that it only loads parts however.
It doesn't have to be that large, especially for prototypes.

My ideas: Keep Tundaria. A little mass of land that floats next to Weyard (possibly connected with chains or bridges).
Raetah's idea to make structures underneath Weyard. Perhaps less waterfall borders, because the only place in the game where there are no border is next to Mars lighthouse.

And finally something I had in mind for my own game: If we decide to not set the story during GS1 & GS2, then we can introduce the fannon last continent. It lies right above Prox and the Mars lighthouse and is even bigger than Angara. If you guys want, I can post some prototype stuff of it.

@Thunder-Squall
We need at least someone that's capable of working with RPGmaker and we need that djinni system. As long as we can make or own statistics and code some of them, then we know for sure that we're going to use RPGmaker. So is that possible?

@Teawater & Thunder-Squall
We could do this map thing later, but the whole story is sorta depending on it. And at the same time is the map depending on the story...
As said before, unless this project is going to be a prologue, am I fine with almost any decisions you take.
But we got to get these things clear:

• Does the story set on Weyard?
• If yes, is it before, after or at the same time of the GS1 & GS2 story?
• How many continents do you want?
• Does the story also show us any other place (perhaps the world below?)?

@Saturos Does that mean your vote goes to 7 worlds that are somehow connected as were the story will take place?
Also 2D. Let's all focus on the basics first, then we'll see if can implement some semi-3D battle/overworld system.

[Saturos]

I think it will be enough 3D battle system.
7 worlds can make game longer and more interesting.
In all worlds we can put Elemental gods like in world put Poseidon.
Gods can guard the exit from the elemental world to other...

[Luna_blade]

I think it will be enough 3D battle system.
7 worlds can make game longer and more interesting.
In all worlds we can put Elemental gods like in world put Poseidon.
Gods can guard the exit from the elemental world to other...

I take that as a yes. Also a fine idea. We get to add lot's of stuff, the game will be totally different, and we don't get plot holes.

Uhh, I guess you're right about the 3D thing. I was confused with Final Fantasy 6, which has a semi-3D overworld when you are flying in your ship.

[KyleRunner]

Are there any unknown or undiscovered locations on Weyard? If so, then maybe we could create a village/community and sidequest that could fit into any of the three Golden Sun games?  The exact story context might change, but the dungeon layout, and other details of the town might stay constant.(...)

How about Anemos? It is a civilization that once belonged to Weyard but went to "the sky". It is supposed to be an enormous city...

So... Anemos alone would be enough to create a fan game. Right?

[Luna_blade]

@kyle Runner It sure would. To me it does not sound like a bad idea.
What if Anemos becomes one of Saturos' dimensions/worlds?

Do you by any chance want to get deeper involved in this beginning project? Because we need to know which active members will be involved. It's okay if you want to stay a watcher: we're not even sure if the project isn't too big to handle.

[KyleRunner]

@kyle Runner It sure would. To me it does not sound like a bad idea.
What if Anemos becomes one of Saturos' dimensions/worlds?

Do you by any chance want to get deeper involved in this beginning project? Because we need to know which active members will be involved. It's okay if you want to stay a watcher: we're not even sure if the project isn't too big to handle.

Of course I'd want to be part of it! There are some things that I need to say, though:
- English is not my first language...
- I don't know about hacking. If we're using a tool like RPG maker, though, I can get the basic.
- I made a fan translation of the first game and I'm finishing the second one... So I know the history (lore) back and forth. I can help to get rid of some inconsistences.

[Saturos]

Well we can make list of ancient civilisations.
In :MercuryStar:world we can put Lemuria.
In :JupiterStar:world we can make floating Anemos.
In ?
In ?
In ?
in ?
Any Ideas?

Idea for Anemos Castle: http://www.realmofdarkness.net/dq/img/nes/dw4/maps/zenithian-castle.png
It is Zenithian Castle from Dragon warrior IV.
Golden sun camera battle system http://save-point.org/thread-4446.html

[Misery]

Alright, so now I've more or less caught up with this and there's a lot I want to respond to. Some of it I've decided to just leave alone for now since there's just too much, even then I'm gonna quote a lot of stuff, so bear with me. I'm happy to see there are now several people here who are interested in working on a community project, enough that I feel motivated to take some responsibility for it (and I'm also effectively in charge of this section, so...)

First thing I'm going to work on is figuring out how to organize things here on the forum so we can have some productive discussion about the project. And regarding that, please don't bring up game details such as ideas for characters, equipment, environments, classes, etc. until we're decided on the general direction of the game. We'll get to that later, if this can actually manage to get off the ground.

Let's just start something new with the people who are still here (or who are currently active).  Simply put, I don't think 'Dimensional Crisis' belongs to us.  And what if the old guys come back and want to continue *their* work?  I don't want to be rude to them.

And I don't want to be limited by their decisions either.

I completely agree with this, and it's pretty much the reason I made that announcement last year. The chance that they will want to come back and continue on it is probably zero percent, though.

An important point to observe: the purpose of Dimensional Crisis was originally to demonstrate what could be done with Atrius' GS editor. I think it's safe to say this is not what we're after now.

I believe it's obvious that the status of DC would be Canceled rather than Delayed if we started a new project... by the evidence of conversation that went on.

Practically speaking, it's cancelled.

And to be quite frank:  We're a train without an engine, so even if Misery gets here late, it's not like we're going anywhere.  And for some perspective, see her last update on the project: Announcement regarding the state of the Community Project

I like this initiative, and I think it's a good thing trying to get started with things instead of waiting for people. Sadly though, I must inform you that it's 'his', not 'her'. If my username and image are misleading, then... my apologies. Pretty sure this applies to Lishy as well.

But I'll still ask:  Why?  Is anyone claiming that any of the work done for Dimensional Crisis was any good?  Without a guide to walk us through it (maybe Misery), I think we're pretty lost going in that direction.

I made a small amount of character concepts - four player characters and some forum member avatars. There's no particular reason to use them in a new project though.

There was quite a bit of equipment balancing being done, with some new weapon types. We also had class and psynergy guidelines, which in my opinion were a bit too strict and formulaic as it doesn't seem the game designers observed any such rules, but they could serve as a good base.

I haven't gotten particularly involved in the worldbuilding, but afaik the map was split into four elemental continents, each the territory of a clan. I think we can ignore this.

The story was basically four people from our world getting pulled into a game world, and... actually, I don't remember much of the story. It was pretty silly in any case.

Yeah, I don't think there's much we can use.

The basic question is what everyone's willing to contribute to the project, and what they're expecting to have by the end of it.

To begin with, organization and documentation. In terms of actually producing things, mainly graphics and graphical design, since I'm right at home with that. That will be if the project progresses favorably, though.
Oh, and battle mechanics, classes, game balance... because I'm a nut. Actually, I guess I'm willing to do a bit of everything.

My expectations: an RPG similar to Golden Sun in style and mechanics. It has a defined beginning, midpoint and end. It has many enemies to be fought in turn-based battles, and many maps (towns and dungeons) to explore.

So you guys have decided you want to make an ENTIRE Golden Sun game?  Don't you think that might be a bit too ambitious?

This is entirely a matter of definition. Still worth thinking twice about though, and a few more times after that.

So it looks like we didn't just copy Camelot? So it looks like we worked hard on almost every aspect of it?

Open question to every one reading the thread:  Is ^this^ stuff important to you, and something you want to put effort into?

Not at all. In fact, I think we should steal as much we can get away with. Which is, of course, as much as we can while still giving the player a new experience. The goal is to make a good game, not to impress people by how much work we put into it.

Is there a reason why we should spend time working on specific characters, rather than a character creation system?  It doesn't seem to me that the names or genders of any of the characters really made an impact on the story.

This is true, and I think custom characters would give the game much more replay value. I wouldn't have played through Final Fantasy on NES 10+ times if you couldn't make your own 4-man party. The class mechanics also lend themselves well to custom characters.

> Will it just be a story and setting for now, and the means to implement it will be revealed over time?

> Will it be a GBA hack, and therefore the story will be constrained by the tech and resources we have available?

For a GBA hack, it would depend heavily on Teawater making a working map editor and generally helping out with his knowledge of the game. I don't think we should put that much responsibility on one person, and it doesn't seem like a very sound plan even if he agrees. So personally I'm for using other methods.

First goal
Create a design document that people can read.  Consider it a game guide for the imaginary game we want to make.  It'll include fake screen shots, stat-blocks for monsters, etc. etc. If we ever get into actually producing the game, then this design document will serve as a guide.  If not, then at least it'll be a fun imagination tool, and a product we can be proud of.

We have two options in terms of how to publish it:

1) As a wiki, using the same standards as other Golden Sun wikis (except our stuff will be fake)
2) As a pdf or word document.

I vote for the first option, since we're web-native anyway, and it'll be easier to read, edit, and make.

Thoughts?

I think this is perfect for the first goal, and using a wiki as the main design document is a great idea. Keeping all the game design ideas on the forums didn't work out so well, as you've already noticed. Too hard to organize, impossible to know what is up to date. So let's make a wiki were we keep the most recent game plans, and keep discussions on the forums. DC actually had a wiki too, but not enough people willing to actually update it. I think it had a pretty good description of the old project, but it seems to be down.

To be continued later with some thoughts on the actual direction of the game...

[Thunder-squall]

(still have to read the latest posts, but real quick:)

@ Kyle Runner : A Lore Master would be really helpful.  Since I assume you were going to anyway, could you create s thread in which you identify the unknowns of the series, the inconsistencies or problems they present, and how you propose filling those gaps?  You just need to start the topic, we're not going to make you do it alone.  I'm sure it'll take is a few weeks to really hammer it out.  I think creating a complete and suitable lore for the series would be a hefty task in and of itself, but I think is the first step to creating any fan game on GS.

There was quite a bit of equipment balancing being done, with some new weapon types. We also had class and psynergy guidelines, which in my opinion were a bit too strict and formulaic as it doesn't seem the game designers observed any such rules, but they could serve as a good base.

Oh, and battle mechanics, classes, game balance... because I'm a nut. Actually, I guess I'm willing to do a bit of everythi

@Luna Blade, is ^this^ the type of stuff you were most interested in?  So I guess you and Misery would be our resident specialists on the subjects, and would probably be working closely together.

@ Misery, I don't know what we'll eventually make, but do you want to go ahead and make this your domain?  You're effectively the project-lead, so delegation would be your responsibility.

We need at least someone that's capable of working with RPGmaker and we need that djinni system. As long as we can make or own statistics and code some of them, then we know for sure that we're going to use RPGmaker. So is that possible?

I know that we can add custom systems to RPG Maker (a web search yielded some tutorials), but I don't know who else in this group uses RPG Maker.

Are you willing to
1) make an RPG maker thread on this forums where users can identify themselves and meet each other?
2) check RPG Maker forums and simply ask for help and advice?  I think that'd be the quickest way to get the answers we need, and may even yield us some recruits.

--
We don't have to do this all at once.  There's such a thing as scheduling, where we can take things one at a time, or switch between things as we get bored.

I think we should steal as much we can get away with. Which is, of course, as much as we can while still giving the player a new experience

I remixing like this is very appropriate for a hacking site, and is what I think most people would come here to do.

My expectations: an RPG similar to Golden Sun in style and mechanics. It has a defined beginning, midpoint and end. It has many enemies to be fought in turn-based battles, and many maps (towns and dungeons) to explore.

Regardless of how many maps we eventually make, we need to start with one.  And I think most RPGs can be broken into arcs, and each side quest tends to have a complete story.  I guess the word I'm looking for is 'scenario.' I think we should make a single scenario, such as players making their way to the top of a mountain, or going through challenges in an amusement park.

We use whatever battle system you and Luna Blade want to work on; we use whatever map people want to work on, and we use whatever lore or setting people want to work on.  All we care about in the end is that the game is playable, and is a complete and fun experience for players.  So we start by using whatever pieces the people here want to make, and work towards a prototype.  as that progresses, we'll have a better idea of what more needs to be committed, and how much we're willing to commit.

Does that seem fair, or do you guys want a bigger dream?

[Today]

Today at 19:17:24

Teawater: http://forum.goldensunhacking.net/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=51

[Today]

Today at 19:05:48

Luna_blade: @.gba Nope. Where is it?

[Today]

Today at 18:00:23

Teawater: By the way, I was wondering, did anyone else notice the ".gba" ROM in the Downloads section?

[Today]

Today at 16:54:26

JamietheFlameUser: Well, that particular Briggs fight was from a long time ago. I haven't been working on my current hack the past few days because of other stuff.

[Today]

Today at 16:40:10

Luna_blade: @Saturos: Your english exams?

[Today]

Today at 16:33:40

Teawater: Can't remember exactly what shae of yellow it was, so not sure it would be too close or not.

[Today]

Today at 16:30:58

Teawater: @KoP: Wouldn't Shiny Gold be for the Sol Clan?

[Today]

Today at 15:37:37

Salanewt: Oh wait, tag doesn't work down here. But yeah, how is your hack going Jamie?

[Today]

Today at 15:37:00

Salanewt: [me] considers giving him the Sol Blade...

[Today]

Today at 15:36:00

Salanewt: Oh my. To be honest though, I'd be more likely to give Briggs stuff from later regions; him being a pirate from another continent and all.

[Today]

Today at 09:36:58

JamietheFlameUser: How not to design boss fights: give human-type bosses stats and equipment on par for what the Editor says their level is and what equipment is available where they're from. You get stuff like an actually scaled to level 21 Briggs with a Great Sword, Silver Plate, Silver Helm, Vambrace, and Leather Boots. God, that was BS.

[Today]

Today at 09:09:49

Saturos: Wow first part of exam is ower (in english) tomorow speaking part.

[Today]

Today at 07:11:35

JamietheFlameUser: Eh, I didn't know the exact chance of Curse screwing you over. Still, that 6% chance to fail to act at all could screw you over when it matters most. The obvious solution, of course, is to stick that armour on a character who doesn't do anything but spam attack moves anyway.

[Today]

Today at 07:10:52

leaf: ...assuming I'm remembering the chance of curse taking effect correctly as 25%

[Today]

Today at 07:09:50

leaf: in fact, you get two turns the majority of the time (~56%), and only completely fail to act ~6%, the remainder of the time getting one action

[Today]

Today at 07:07:49

leaf: I like that stealth armor buff. it wouldn't make sense to do that with the clerics ring available, but if you remove that, it's actually an interesting item. On average, you get ~1.5 turns per round. it's potentially very strong, but carries risks

[Today]

Today at 07:04:59

leaf: lol

[Today]

Today at 06:39:21

JamietheFlameUser: Reading the Venus Psynergy topic and 'lol'ing at Role's reaction to a very simple spell idea I'd had (and still think is awesome), where rock explodes out of the ground from a single point in a focused, cone-shaped burst. Role read me the riot act about not combining elements again. lol.

[Today]

Today at 06:17:58

JamietheFlameUser: Well, one thing I came up with that was actually potentially cool is a modification to the Stealth Armour. I gave it +1 turns, under the assumption that the Cleric's Ring would be removed. You might get 2 actions that round, or 1 action, or maybe no actions at all! RNG at its finest.

[Today]

Today at 06:15:32

Knight of Purgatory: Nice orange text kain. Maybe it should be a shiny gold

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